Monday, June 30, 2008

Our way or the sane way

For some reason, the past few days on the linux sub-reddit seem to be full of articles talking about how nvidia sucks, or how people are going to switch to ATI, or how the kernel devs have formed a drum circle to convince nvidia that they suck (where's Linus, btw?).

What really pisses me off is that all these Linux fanboys are consuming precious nvidia resources that they could otherwise spend to improve their products or better their drivers on platforms that matter. Seriously, at this point, the only reason nvidia distributes any kind of driver for the non-windows platforms is for mindshare, and so that the FOSS crowd won't go around spreading FUD about them. It's a form of PR blackmail, really. Don't want to play by our rules? Fine, but we'll send the FOSS mob out on the internets to destroy your geek cred.

edit: Ok fine, so they do make some money off of this stuff. But don't go telling any of the freetards that. I don't care if they've found a few ass-hat customers that bought into Linux and are now desperate for a graphics solution that works.

But what it really shows is that the FOSS crowd really doesn't give two shits about businesses, and that's why they never get taken seriously.

Like it or not, Microsoft has shown that its model for developing software and enabling independent hardware and software developers works. It generates assloads of revenue (for itself and for those other companies) and creates incentive for innovation. A bunch of companies are built on the sole reason that playing in the MS ecosystem allows them to make money. Yes, the software isn't perfect, but perfection is never attainable, so you might as well do the thing that a) makes you a living, b) gets a bunch of people to help you because it makes them a living, and c) moves generally in the right direction.

But hold on just a sec. Along come the fosstards saying that everyone's doing everything wrong. That nobody should have secret sauces and everything should be out in the open. It was fine when they were playing in their own little corner, not really having any effect on the real world, but now they have enough cult members act like a real mob.

I know what Nvidia really wants to say to the mobtards, but just can't say it in public: Show me the fucking money.

You see, drivers don't fall out of the sky for free. And neither does documentation. It costs them money to develop and maintain these things. But you know, they're totally incented to do this because Linux is like, 2% of the market, and they've managed to split themselves into all kinds of different kernel versions and X versions that make it a support nightmare. Wait, why should Nvidia care again? Because they should want freedom?

Oh? you want to write the drivers for them if they just provide the docs? Great! Should they tell you all our secrets too? Should they just hand over their entire manufacturing process to be managed by a bunch of asshats that only care if it works for them? Sorry! It turns out the people in the real world want stuff that's working, and want to be able to call them up when it doesn't, and they'd like to be able to help those people out. They don't trust you clowns to do this all in a competent way for them. You certainly have already shown that you can't even put a consistent platform together. So why the fuck would they believe you about anything else?

I know what the first N comments are going to be: blah blah Intel blah blah, blah blah AMD blah blah.

Yes, Intel makes free drivers. Guess what, their chips are also basic and cheap. They want the graphics layer to be essentially commoditized. In that frame of mind, it makes sense to write open drivers. They're not competing on the bleeding edge. They want their stuff to run everywhere. Plus they're a giant company with tons of cash to waste. In the long run, it might also give them leverage against MS, should MS really try to screw them in the future.

And, yes, AMD has opened up some of their stuff. But guys, have you ever used AMD/ATI drivers on Windows? It fucking blows. Those guys couldn't write drivers to save their cocks'n'balls. So, given that you can't write decent drivers in the first place, it makes sense to throw the task over to the oss crowd right? Too bad the crowd isn't going to write Windows drivers for them.

Actually, that would be an awesome stunt. ATI to fosstards: "Go write awesome Windows drivers for us, so that we can continue to stay in business and make openly documented cards for you lusers. Oh, and write drivers for those too. Have fun!"

71 flames:

Anonymous said...

Thank you... so much... for this post. Totally spot-on. The ATI driver for Linux sucks - in my case, the Radeon X1550 craps out on Ubuntu.

This is very likely off-topic, but see how Stallman and Clipperz wants people to release the source to their web apps.
Protip: If you don't like it, don't use it.

Anonymous said...

I got bored and stop reading after the first few lines.

I like nVidia and tend to agree with you that they have a right to keep their drivers closed.

But so what? Every camp has zealots. This is not a good reason to hate Linux. Its a good reason to hate humans.

Anonymous said...

Hey Linux fanboy ! "Like it or not, Microsoft has shown that it's model ..." - call yourself a writer ? If you were using our Word product it would've called out that erroneous apostrophe !!

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I just don't get this open source community, what pushes them to ask such stupid thing.
Is it like: "Those folks from NVIDIA will subdue to us no mater what!"
Or: "I'm bored today, let's create a new controversy".

I'm going to say it loud for the linux people: Before saying something is wrong with the other please fix your shit.

Anonymous said...


Before saying something is wrong with the other please fix your shit.

You might bother yourself to look-up the definition of irony.

Anonymous said...

intel intel blah:
Intel packs most of their logic into the firmware, and the driver acts as a gateway to that logic.
Less open than you thought..

AMD released the hardware ABI, not the drivers, and sponsores RadeonHD development, which is very far from being complete. So no openness on that front either.

Regarding the FOSS ability to create drivers: the r200 specifications has been in the open for at least 5 years, yet the performance, reliability, and feature completeness is still behind the unsupported fglrx drivers released at that time.

I have a r200:
The 3d performance of the OSS driver is about half of the performance of the windows driver, at the primary xp partition.
google earth works perfectly fine in windows , yet stutters, lags, and is generally slow at the linux partition; when using Compiz, scrolling with firefox kicks the cpu to the 100% load area, and tv out doesn't work (and no, I will not change my distro, or try xorg.conf exa xaa whatever hacks, I've been there, done that, never more).

In short, do you really trust those guys to be able to produce anything worthwhile, even if everything will be out in the open? I by worthwhile, I mean before it is a decade out of commission.

Linux on the desktop is dead. move on.

Anonymous said...

> the only reason nvidia distributes any kind of driver for the
> non-windows platforms is for mindshare

Actually this is not entirely true; just Google 'linux studios rendering' and realize that these guys may be doing business with nvidia (sla's etc.). E.g. not all linux users are freetards.

Anonymous said...

"Seriously, at this point, the only reason nvidia distributes any kind of driver for the non-windows platforms is for mindshare"

My dearest, most esteemed hater: stick to vitriolic yet nonetheless truthful attacks on useability, politics, and so on. But statements like this are plain bullshit.

Stick to ya roots!

Soyuz said...


Sometime you really shoot using the wrong gun. Showing how Linux based desktop distributions sucks is OK as anyone has used Windows / Mac os for sometime along with Linux desktop distributions should agree to varying extent. As I do.

But dude, promoting MS ecosystem, a vehicle for companies making big bucks, as opposed to FOSS concepts, is just plain dumb. I am not sure how a sane mind can accept "proprietary" as superior to open (maybe also free) hence FOSS.

I can see that you have experience with Linux. But now I am sure that you either don't know at all about what FOSS is or have got a major misconception.

And in that case, you will never see why there is this pool of die hard FOSS fans who stands to protect and let grow those "sucky" softwares at any cost.

Sorry to say, but I just lost interest in following up your blog anymore as I can clearly see that you are wooing a bunch of people not knowing their identity.

You moron! You were a clown (a real funny one) but now you are just a moron.

Tyler said...

My favorite part was when a commenter said:

armies of open source developers would tweak the code to extremes impossible for a single vendor having limited resources

h1d said...

" why there is this pool of die hard FOSS fans"

i like free (of price) software!

mp3 is free, movie is free, apps have to be free too (with the help of torrents)!

you see... (no, that's not what 'I' said)

Anonymous said...

@anonymous 5

You might bother yourself to look-up the definition of irony.

Oh, I do know what irony is, but take note: I don't work for MS/Apple!
I can spam them all day long with their bugs (and they got plenty), but I still don't see this as my responsobility to fix it (after all I pay good money for them to fix it).

On the other hand, the whole idea behind linux community is this: If something is broken then fix it, because on most projects no one gets paid so the devs are doing me a favor of fixing it.

There is a big difference between the two. And this gives the total right to bitch about anything I like or dislike.

Anonymous said...

I wasted 2 minutes reading your rubbish I want my 2 minutes back. I cant be assed to write a comment to this stuff. Really really really try to get life or move on with something useful. Help out at the firefox community or the IE one o' wait there inst one. Oh well be a loner and masturbate over gay porn. Its all good.

tuomov said...

"Help out at the firefox community or the IE one o' wait there inst one. "

Help out when the asshats in power (e.g. Keith Packard who ruined fonts and most recently xrandr) and the FOSS herd supporting/worshipping them are diametrically opposed to what I want. Getting what you want from FOSS crap means forking, and wasting your life developing that shit.

Sorry, FOSS is no longer under the radar. It has become a poor clone of Windows, offering none of what it once did.

Anonymous said...

Always easier for some one to complain then invest there own resources into fixing something. If you don't like it fix it. Your not paying anything. No way in hell do they own you anything.

tuomov said...

"Always easier for some one to complain then invest there own resources into fixing something."

Easier to give up and invest my money in Microsoft's products, than to invest my entire life in forking all the shoddy FOSS crap. If the FOSS herd can't offer anything better than Microsoft does, there's no point in fighting against Microsoft's dominance.

It's the same with all "revolutions": one may offer a moment of relative freedom, but eventually degenerates into the same shit that it aimed to replace.

Anonymous said...

"Oh well be a loner and masturbate over gay porn. Its all good."

So, you're saying, free software users are heterosexuals, and non-free-software users are gay? Is there something wrong with being gay? I thought the free software movement was about freedom. Should I just remove Linux from my computer and rejoin the Windows community? Evidently the free software crowd doesn't want my faggot ass hanging around.

Anonymous said...

"Linux on the desktop is dead. move on."

Right, since Vista has done so fucking well and everybody loves using 600 megs of ram just to run the piece of shit.

Anonymous said...

What's more insane? Inane complaints, or complaining about inane complaints? (Or complaining about complaining about inane complaints? ;) )

Bryan said...

The premise of this entire blog is laughable.

You're complaining about something that no one is forcing you to use. You're making valid complaints, but you're acting as if someone is forcing GNU/Linux down your throat. If you don't like it, don't use it. And while you're at it - stop bitching.

You complain that the GNU/Linux driver base is slow. You try reverse engineering a piece of software as complex and low level as a driver, and come back to me in 10 years when you've still go no pbuffer support.

Again- The premise is laughable. You're like a child complaining that his mother won't give him some ice cream. You want this, that and the other - but want it handed to you. Either use Microsoft's Operating system (which is, admittedly, acceptable - even perfect - for some users.) or get to work.

fung0 said...

Don't know where the hell you got this: "But guys, have you ever used AMD/ATI drivers on Windows? It fucking blows."

I've been using ATI cards and drivers since ATI was based in a basement (remember the EGA Wonder?), and I've NEVER had a significant problem. That's right. Never. I generally don't even bother updating the software except when I get a new card. Over the years, I've run virtually all the hot new games; I've had one or two really minor issues over that entire history. (I think I recall a missing texture about five years ago.) I've had one or two Nvidia cards, and they were fine too. But not notably better.

You actually had my attention with your amusing rants, but I can see now that at least some of your assertions have zero basis in fact. Goodbye credibility.

Niko Kiirala said...

"Like it or not, Microsoft has shown that its model for developing software and enabling independent hardware and software developers works."

And that totally shows that it would have been complete and utter waste of time and resources for Microsoft to publish documentation for their products, doesn't it?

Just like AMD and Intel will never publish documentation for their processors, that would be totally foolish for them to throw their secrets all out in the open. OpenGL? Pfft, what would they ever earn by giving the documentation out for free?

Yes, it would be totally stupid to ask for such things, wouldn't it?

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